Big Digital Energy

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;23;10
Unknown
All right, I forgot, we're recording today. I'm looking at myself on the TV and the black hoodie with the black background. You're the floating head to the head. That's awesome. Dude. Dude, dude. Yes, I wear black routinely. It was a sharper contrast to the hair that I have remaining, which is turned snow white. There you go. The, it's been a black hoodie week.

00;00;23;13 - 00;00;48;12
Unknown
Every, every day this week I wore black hoodie. Was this the week that you were asked to tuck in your hoodie at a Tex-Mex place? And I was bossa causa, I think. Where is that? It is in Highland Village somewhere, as you would expect. Kind of on Preston Street. Anyway, the food was really good. It it is an Argentinean steakhouse, so.

00;00;48;16 - 00;01;12;04
Unknown
Well, so we're not talking Tex-Mex. We're not talking Tex-Mex. Although they had queso on the menu. And, but they also had sushi. So anyway, it was a nice it was Dallas. It was a nice enough place. But. All right, before we leave that I had I had to tuck in all time. Favorite Tex-Mex joint. It's got to be a joint.

00;01;12;07 - 00;01;38;03
Unknown
Oh, yeah. Oh, dude. Larry's. I mean, come on. The, I will I will say, Larry's. And I hate to say this because I'm a Larry's devotee. Bob's tacos makes better tamales, and the flour tortillas are better. Really? Yeah. Bob Stock has been on diners, Drive-Ins and dives. I've got three. All right. Lamb on me. Early childhood.

00;01;38;05 - 00;02;11;12
Unknown
El zip up a in Bay city. Okay? I don't even know if it's still around. And then later years when I lived in corpus old Mexico, which is no longer right, but the joint hole in the wall all time favorite is a place that's been around, I think, since 1950. Used to stop in there for breakfast and lunch on quail trips to Hebbronville is in a little town called Mirando City, but halfway between Laredo and Hebbronville.

00;02;11;14 - 00;02;36;21
Unknown
Lala's Lala is. You brought me sauce from Lala's. Lala's salsa from Lola's. You like it? It was very good. The tell you the story about before they started actually retailing the sauce. No. Go in there. Almost just for the sauce. It was the most, kind of spiritual hot sauce experience I've ever had. So I asked if I could buy some.

00;02;36;23 - 00;02;58;18
Unknown
They sent me home with, like, I don't know, it must been a two gallon jar. That stuff, right? Didn't cost very much. But now when you go on their whatever they're a little merch side is, they found the right price point, I can tell you. And it is a little bit different now, but, Lala's if you're ever down in that part of the part of the world, you got to stop by Lala's.

00;02;58;20 - 00;03;25;19
Unknown
And don't. Don't get fries with your burger. Get get the side tacos. Nice. Yeah, they make the shells, you know, when you place your order. So it's. So Larry's, makes the salsa on Tuesday and Friday. So I always find the salsa best Monday because it's been sitting around for a while or Thursday, you know, been sitting sitting around stewing.

00;03;25;19 - 00;03;51;14
Unknown
Yep. That's old and part old, man. Coffee is now at Larry's. So the, there's there's there's no detente with Joseph's. No detente. I still stop by and get Joseph's. If I'm not hanging out with the old guys having coffee. Get well soon. Mr. Coleman. Have the, have the congressman or the has the congressman stopped by in the midst of the last?

00;03;51;17 - 00;04;16;27
Unknown
Hensarling hadn't seen the congressman in a while. And we have the the congressman and his brother, the congressman elect, because, the the winner of the Republican primary, Trevor Nehls, will, will will win the election. That's a that's a Republican seat. So, all right, we're not going to talk about direct kind of Iran war stuff. Yeah.

00;04;17;02 - 00;04;43;14
Unknown
We're going to talk about collateral stuff. I had to say about the Iran war. Anyway. So I wrote a piece late last week, I think the day after they had the, video summit that was hosted by Secretary Wright and Secretary Burgum, in essence, asking, an audience of 200 plus or minus oil and gas. Exactly. You know, all the big names.

00;04;43;14 - 00;05;30;02
Unknown
Were there a lot of the big name independents were there and representative it was basically, you know. Come on, can't we do a little bit more here? And I called the piece drill baby pretty please. I had I mean we saw this in some similar fashion around the whole Venezuela aftermath. Right. And the industry's response was, I think, predictably, for those of us who are in this in the weeds of this industry, every day, the characterization, the first article I read, there wasn't much coming out of the white House in the aftermath because I think the nature of the the meeting was, you know, subdued, the demeanor was subdued.

00;05;30;04 - 00;05;59;28
Unknown
So I guess it was it was interesting, interesting to see that Secretary Burgum, who was at a, remind me of what some before is he was at a some of our gathering later in the day. And he basically characterize it as a great meeting. And, you know, made the statement that clearly the price signals are there to motivate more investment.

00;06;00;03 - 00;06;20;22
Unknown
You know, where I think we are, where are we if we really want to do this? We got to go back to my, my friend Brad Olson on the, on the, the energy policy draft. We did. You went number one. You chose natural gas. And you you did look like you did a fine job on the, on the first draft pick.

00;06;20;23 - 00;06;47;14
Unknown
Brad got forced into, into drafting last. And again, we were kind of at the point of needing more oil wells to be drilled. So he proposed that we do a tarp like program. The US government will loan 50% of the drilling of each well going forward, because the one thing the US government can do far superior to anyone else is print money.

00;06;47;17 - 00;07;08;14
Unknown
So we'll go ahead and just loan the first 50% and take the first 50% of the loss if, if the oil doesn't pay out. So yeah, but that was that was his proposal for it. That's what we need to do, Doug. And Chris does does that have a, a falling knife mechanism in it? You know, the more you drill, the faster you bring it online.

00;07;08;14 - 00;07;35;07
Unknown
The more we exacerbate the problem. We're going to grow our way back to, -37 again. Probably. But I mean that that's that. That's the one solution. A pretty please is not going to do it. The, the one thing you know, they there was tepid praise for the waiver of the Jones Act, you know, from the industry back to what the administration has done.

00;07;35;07 - 00;08;05;23
Unknown
Hey, kudos to you. Although, you know, we won't go off on that tangent too far. It's like it's your it's your IEA, right? Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. That's fair. But the other thing that was, not surprisingly raised is look, there is some production that is not turned in a line that is shut in because you don't have the gas handling facilities available at certain wells sites.

00;08;05;23 - 00;08;25;22
Unknown
So we got to be able to flare. That might get you. I don't even know what that number is. But the reality is, when you look at, you know, what rig count has done, what spread counts have done over the past, going on, what, three years now? Maybe even more than that. You know, the signals from the industry are.

00;08;25;22 - 00;09;10;27
Unknown
Look, we've been since Covid, we've we've really stepped up on this capital discipline path, and we're finally getting rewarded for it. Although I saw a, tweet from Dan the other day, I think it was two days ago, and he said, you know, stocks are still discounting 67, which if you think back to the commentary around, okay, coming into this year, pre conflict and and all the price weakness that we suffered through last year, what does that look like in terms of okay where does the industry get comfortable maybe lagging back in to pick it up.

00;09;10;27 - 00;09;48;04
Unknown
Rigs drawing more wells investing more capital. And I distinctly remember Diamondback saying, look, 65, my characterization is a warm, idle. We start to think about that kind of north of 70. And that's the problem, is that, you know, people are looking the electorate, the general public's looking at futures, what they see on the screen. They see the front month and they see $100 plus, you know, certainly in the 95 to 105 range, whereas we kind of live there for the better part of five years from 2010 to 2014.

00;09;48;06 - 00;10;19;05
Unknown
You know, why not? And this frustration, I think politically is starting to build where I also mentioned this, you know, is, is Congress in a kind of a bipartisan effort going to dust off the old let's haul everybody in in front of Congress and, and have, hearings about price gouging, house price gouging. You know, we saw that in the in the 2000s in the midst of the super spike and even before that, it was just the old playbook.

00;10;19;05 - 00;10;44;17
Unknown
I think the longer this goes politically, as we are hurtling toward the, November midterms, it's, it's a, it's a real problem. Yeah. No, I mean, at the at the end of the day, I mean, gasoline prices every day, you know, and people fill their cars up or don't fill their cars up every day based on it.

00;10;44;17 - 00;11;09;06
Unknown
So, I mean, you have a real world barometer right there, a measure and right or wrong or different, you know, that's the scorecard. Yeah. And it's it's on every street corner. You feel it, especially if you've got a long commute, you know, and I'm filling up once a week and then I'm paying 20 to $30 more depending on your vehicle.

00;11;09;08 - 00;11;36;00
Unknown
And you know, so but the reality is if there were major upward capital adjustments, capital spending adjustments, you know, by and large, you're not going to make an impact. And we know U.S. supply is not a problem because we're it you know, we're we're taking up the slack for a lot of other places in the world, due to exports.

00;11;36;00 - 00;12;11;06
Unknown
And we're still drawing down the SPR. Right. And so we've got this baked in demand that's going to be there for a while, because at some point you got to refill these strategic reserves. And so once the industry gets a structural price signal for the outer part of the curve, you know, I think with, personal opinion, I've been wrong on price predictions before, as I think most of us have, you know, kind of mid 70s is is is a flaw.

00;12;11;09 - 00;12;38;00
Unknown
And it may be, you know, Tommy Norris's equilibrium price of 78. You're right. I remember that scene when he's talking to Rebecca. Exactly, exactly. Yeah. The much above. Much above 80. It starts to panic or we. I think he was talking gasoline prices, but and so the other aftermath of all of this kind of jawboning arm twisting, I chuckled when I saw Stryker.

00;12;38;00 - 00;13;04;14
Unknown
He posted a jigsaw clip from a podcast where, my apologies. He's, you know, setting the table for this guest that he had on by saying, you know, the industry is sitting on its hands, you know, which we've which we've heard, repeatedly over the last several weeks, you know, kind of calling the industry out because clearly the incentive is there.

00;13;04;14 - 00;13;14;22
Unknown
We've got $100 oil. They ought to be responding in. His guests was saying, you know, it's time for the renewables industry to be bold.

00;13;14;24 - 00;13;43;25
Unknown
We need to ramp up kind of the political messaging and the, spending campaign on, on marketing and lobbying and all these things. After the disaster that, you know, post call it 2122 that beset the big players in the renewable space. You know, it's it's, you know, grifter going to grift, right. And so it was a little surprising to see that out there so boldly.

00;13;43;25 - 00;14;13;19
Unknown
In course, Frank called it out, which I found certainly humorous. And, you know, we've we're we're never going to get past the accusations of having an oil and gas tilt. But when you look at the reality of what's going on in the world today, all of a sudden the global oil and gas industry is and what's going on there is everyone is got everybody's attention.

00;14;13;21 - 00;14;38;05
Unknown
Well, this thing I still can't wrap my head around is I hear the, the, the mantra of they're so greedy. Energy companies are greedy, yet they won't do renewables because those are so much more profitable. I mean, come on. I mean, they don't care. They gladly stop drilling wells tomorrow of building solar panels they could make more money at in a heartbeat.

00;14;38;08 - 00;15;17;08
Unknown
You don't get to have it both ways. They're not greedy and or sitting there, denying more profitable forms of energy out there. It's just the unique way industry, including oil and gas, works in the United States, which is on, you know, private, private actors competing and acting in the interest of the of their shareholders. Yeah. Without state mandates or governmental mandates and control, you know, there's no national oil company of the United States, right?

00;15;17;16 - 00;15;47;02
Unknown
So, and the industry is done, you know, for most of its history has done a pretty poor job of communicating how this industry works. Yeah. It's gotten better. And I remember the old days when there was just a lot of defensive kind of reaction to all of these lawsuits because it was countercyclical. I mean, high prices meant we're doing well.

00;15;47;04 - 00;16;14;10
Unknown
And so you can't bold and you can't boast and brag, when you're doing well, because it was, for the most part of our lives, high oil prices drag on the economy. It just wasn't so bad. Flipping the what? There's no bad flipping. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, no. So to some degree, I understand the the energy's businesses reticence in terms of talking defending.

00;16;14;10 - 00;16;37;05
Unknown
But we all know what happens in a vacuum. The other side fills the space. And so yeah we need to we we've said that for years. We need to do a better job of documenting, explaining, showing what we do, etc. I think, the at least the way in an industry insider and a and a really smart insider.

00;16;37;05 - 00;17;03;28
Unknown
Chris. Right. Appeared to have gotten in a little hot water in the midst of all this by suggesting on in some interview on some news program, I can't remember what it was that we could see, you know, persistently higher gasoline prices into next year. And the president immediately responded to that. Nope. Going right back down. I think he's very wrong on that.

00;17;04;01 - 00;17;45;09
Unknown
And so you got guys like Bessette out there saying, you know, we think they're going to quickly revert to where they were, if not lower. And I think the physical reality of what we're seeing suggests that, you know, the longer this goes, the longer the workout is going to be. Now it's you know, I saw three handle gas driving around Houston, which is a big difference from what I've experienced in the last prior few weeks driving around, you know, the valley out in Arizona, right where everything is approaching, you know, regulars right around £0.05, almost six.

00;17;45;09 - 00;18;18;06
Unknown
If you've got to have 91 or 93, but anyway, and that's the yeah. You know, thinking about Bergman. Right. In particular, they know how this industry works. They have been participants in this industry. They know returns of and returns on capital matter. A lot to the the primary stakeholders, which are the shareholders of the investors. Right. And having to I think.

00;18;18;09 - 00;18;49;15
Unknown
Front run a message that somehow defies practical, practical reality of the industry. You know, it's a function of probably not going to be in your job very long if you depart from what the administration, what the president is trying to convey politically. Yeah. So where does all this go? Democratic House in the fall and and the Senate and and the Senate.

00;18;49;15 - 00;19;10;21
Unknown
Yeah. So and then we'll then we'll spend two years impeachment of every one of those folks. We're going to talk about something else, which I, I was pleased to see, but, it was a bit of a convenient deflection to over the weekend, I woke up and was surprised to see that there was a white House gathering going on on Saturday morning.

00;19;10;21 - 00;19;50;17
Unknown
But, one of the things that, from an executive standpoint, that Trump did do, I think it was six days ago, he signed, use his authority under the Defense Production Act of 1950, which directs the Secretary of Energy to evaluate and pursue what I characterizes as, you know, on the grounds of national security, and industrial resource, availability, availability and adequacy.

00;19;50;19 - 00;20;24;07
Unknown
You know, what can we do under executive authorization to get on kind of a war footing? You know, he he signed an executive order. I think Inauguration Day that was, kind of energy emergency related. So this is a follow on to that. Again, it's I think it's a bit of window dressing, because if you look at just the inherent cycle times that we've been talking about from an upstream perspective, all the other stuff too, plants, pipelines, etc., takes, you know, years, those, those things aren't next week.

00;20;24;11 - 00;21;01;13
Unknown
Right? Right. So, maybe something comes out of it. That looks like Brad Larson's, you know, energy tarp type of, of of structure. Right. So, yeah. No, the, you know, my, my whole thing that I've said on here for the whole Trump administration's always been he's a low oil price guy. He always has, and he's always wanted that.

00;21;01;16 - 00;21;24;15
Unknown
And we needed to have lined up the wish list of everything we wanted, whether it's permitting, whatever. So let us do whatever we want. I mean, I'm not, you know, I'm not suggesting we go pollute rivers, but, you know, at the same time, he let us do anything we wanted. We should have had a pretty comprehensive list.

00;21;24;17 - 00;21;47;05
Unknown
That being said, I've said this a million times, and I've talked to a lot of prominent people about it, and they come back with. I don't know what I would have actually asked for, you know, in terms of, I mean, we can all say, yeah, permitting stuff would be better, maybe faster approvals on on right of ways and, you know, stuff like that.

00;21;47;05 - 00;22;10;28
Unknown
But, but, you know, even even then if it's just an executive order and it goes away in, you know, four years or potentially two years if, if the House and Senate go away and you're being dragged for hearings and stuff, what really can you get out of this? So that that's the tough thing with the executive order?

00;22;11;01 - 00;22;34;11
Unknown
Yeah. There's no long term there's no long, you know, and again, you know, if we been all of this as long cycle stuff. Yeah, I mean or at least medium cycle. Yeah I mean sure you're going to get you're going to get, you know, I mean drilling a well probably is the fastest thing you can do because you're, you know, with the wells today, you get tons of your production.

00;22;34;11 - 00;23;06;03
Unknown
You know, the first year, but you got to lay a pipeline to it potentially. And those things, you know, get paid out over five and ten years as opposed, paybacks immediately. And they're permitting issues to deal with and spacing and so, yeah, it's, it's it's tough in the executive order world. You know, I was, I was still stunned, you know, the what was the last, Permian, the Gulf Coast pipeline that came on was Matterhorn Roy.

00;23;06;06 - 00;23;45;15
Unknown
It was I mean, there's there's, you know, we're rolling through another wedge of egress expansion, new pipes and existing pipe expansion here in the next several months, you know, to the tune of corn BCF a day. But that new pipe got built in 17 months, which is stunningly fast for, you know, a 500 mile, essentially a 500 mile pipeline, you know, just speaks to in the best, you know, regulatory.

00;23;45;16 - 00;24;06;16
Unknown
Yeah. I mean, landscape in the world, it's still 17 months, 17 months from now. What are we you know, what are we going to be talking about? What are we going to be doing legislatively? What are we going to be doing from an administrative standpoint? You know, are we facing a true lame duck duck after the midterms for two years?

00;24;06;18 - 00;24;33;05
Unknown
Yeah. And it's and it's gridlocked market might like that. Right. But all of the things that came in with a flurry mostly on executive action since the beginning of the administration. You know, I don't know how much of that is reversible. There was a lot of reversing going on when Trump took office, you know, is it is it just kind of a, just a a back and forth?

00;24;33;07 - 00;24;56;00
Unknown
Yeah. And we don't move forward in, in, in a critical thing is to getting a real sound national energy policy lined out that includes an entire spectrum of energy and not just oil and gas. Yeah. No. And and guy that just calls the libertarian in me. But the more and more I think about it, it does have to be top down.

00;24;56;00 - 00;25;24;28
Unknown
I mean, you just I mean, to this day, you can't frack a well in New York. You can't, you know, frack. Well, I'm glad that was not fired by calling in. So I did have one thing that I wanted to add to run a show, Brian, I did. I got a text this morning. Did you see that EOG has leased a bunch of land in Madison County?

00;25;25;00 - 00;25;27;29
Unknown
Buda gate.

00;25;28;01 - 00;26;00;16
Unknown
They, You got stats on that? I did, so, EOG re completed this vertical. Buda well, in the wood bind in December of 25. It had a decent test and then, they've supposedly permitted a horizontal to, to be drilled. It's happening. Great. Great game. What's the meme, to happening? Another conspiracy theory proves to be proves to be true.

00;26;00;21 - 00;26;30;11
Unknown
Yeah. All right, jump to Sankey. Yeah. I just caught this. He you he had a CNBC appearance, and he was at the exchange on, Monday, and he he, he had a little kind of update clip on the straight. And the interesting thing to me was looking at where, you know, some of the looming real kind of crises are showing up on the horizon.

00;26;30;11 - 00;27;16;21
Unknown
And he talked about Heathrow. I didn't know this, but he throws now the largest, I guess, in terms of throughput traffic in the world. Airport problem is, is that a lot of Heathrow's jet stocks are straight dependent, whether it's, I believe, Kuwaiti refined product imports or crude getting down to India, turned in jet fuel and sent back to to London or to the UK, it it points out the vulnerability that we have in the West in certain areas created because we've allowed our, you know, not in my backyard exactly either.

00;27;16;21 - 00;27;44;21
Unknown
Our productive capacity in the case of the UK, the North Sea in certainly from a refining standpoint, jet fuel is particularly problematic because you can't store it for very long without meaningful deterioration. And so I don't know if it's fair to say today's jet system, you look at jet inventories worldwide, it always struck me relative to the other, reported, petroleum stock categories.

00;27;44;21 - 00;28;22;02
Unknown
It's pretty small number, but I don't I don't know what what current, piece of the overall global demand jet fuel, comprises. But you're, you're running a pretty thin cushion just inherently. And now that you've got the construction, if not a complete shut off from some areas and supplies jet fuel to ultimately the world's busiest airport and Heathrow, you know, you've got a real physical crisis type of situation, you know, are they going to shut down the airport?

00;28;22;03 - 00;28;49;07
Unknown
No. But what you'll start to see is some, at least if I recall what Paul was talking about, how that manifests is, you know, you start, you stop, start cutting off, you know, like those commuter flights, you know, the Ryanair's and whatever the other European commuters are. And then even at the end of the day, costs go up, either money and or just canceled flights, you know, so human time.

00;28;49;10 - 00;29;12;28
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. I guess I knew this a long time ago, but it it was a good reminder. You know, jet fuel is about 30% of your airline ticket price. Yeah. As a, as a, as a flier. And we're, we're seeing in certain areas that jet is going for, you know 200.

00;29;13;01 - 00;29;34;11
Unknown
So stay tuned for that. And especially as we get into right, the heavier summer travel season, which is, you know, got a quarter in gasoline. What we just talked about, we're not going to have physical shortage problems here in the US, but other parts of the world, the other the other country that he brought up, is Australia.

00;29;34;14 - 00;30;01;23
Unknown
And, you know, Australia has been doing its level best to, dismantle its refining capacity. It's a country that uses about a million barrels a day. Their domestic refining capacity has atrophied all the way down to 200,000 barrels a day, and is probably going lower. Number is talk quite a bit about Australia and how it's been shooting itself in the foot.

00;30;01;25 - 00;30;24;03
Unknown
You know, for a lot of the same reasons, a lot of the Western, that being said, the only country on the planet, I believe, to reverse a frack ban Australia did. Yeah, yeah. So they got that going for them. But beetaloo driven. Beetaloo driven. Yep. Brings up large, you know, Paul Hughes does a great job.

00;30;24;05 - 00;30;46;03
Unknown
I had hair envy again when I saw him. And Paul's got good hair. He was a little self-deprecating. Somebody comment her on like, if she drills coming in or how Sharpie looked. You know, he's got the the two tone dress shirt with the white collar and he looks perfectly quaffed and and and throw that accent in there and throws that accent and yeah.

00;30;46;08 - 00;31;15;01
Unknown
Which, you know, is just it's just an authoritative, authoritative thing. Right. That sounds so much smarter when you. But but he pointed he pointed out that he forgot his collar stays. Yeah. So he's the Flying Dutchman or whatever. If if that was my look of the shovel. Mint. Yes. I'd be happy. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. No, I mean, I mean, this this I mean, unfortunately, I think what this is going to degenerate into is anti-Trump sentiment.

00;31;15;04 - 00;31;42;04
Unknown
Trump started a war that he shouldn't have. It's all Trump's fault. Instead of a little realization of looking in the mirror, going, gosh, should we really be importing our energy needs? You know? And, so I don't think, I don't think Europe's going to frame a, a realistic discussion on energy policy and what they should do. It's going to be blame Trump.

00;31;42;07 - 00;32;32;00
Unknown
Yeah. And that's, you know, same thing with gasoline in the US even with this are going to blame Trump. How many weeks are we into the conflict now. The seven eight. Yeah. And so even with this unprecedented historical reality shock it's I think you're right. I mean I think the, the kind of the. Blinded to reality because there's so much, political vitriol and venom out there that, you know, is this going to be a further setback for the West if a pendulum swings politically in both Europe, in the US, hardback, toward a more progressive ban, are they going to, with a vengeance, take up a resumption of let's get back on the net

00;32;32;00 - 00;33;15;26
Unknown
zero path. Right. Which which does you know, even the IEA is on board with, hey, we've got we've got an accelerating rate of depletion problem. We're not spending enough. You know, we don't we no longer believe that that fossil fuel demand is going to peak. But on or before 2030. But you're going to have I think you're going to have a bit of a, what's the right retribution if you know, the the power balance swings hard back the other way and that and that retribution will be manifest in policy.

00;33;15;28 - 00;33;47;03
Unknown
Well, and I mean, the thing that just blows my head and I don't know what to do about this is the same people griping at higher prices right now are the ones that wanted higher prices to stifle demand, because hydrocarbons were bad, right? You know, it's like, come on, folks, just tell us what you want. Yeah. It's just like I remember, tweet with some satellite photos of Asia.

00;33;47;03 - 00;34;38;18
Unknown
I believe it was mostly China back in 2020 at the depth of of Covid. Amy Myers Jaffe was throwing about the fact that, you know, the skies were were clear over Beijing. Well, yet that that's because the world has come to a halt. Right. Is is is that a good thing? So you kind of got what you want and you're now arguing that, I think without much kind of realistic basis and acknowledgment of the, unforgiving dynamic of physics, you're now arguing that there are better or more secure solutions that insulate us for from this type of shock and volatility in the form of, of renewables.

00;34;38;20 - 00;35;29;23
Unknown
Yeah. And then, you know, my argument for all the transition stuff is that you can't push something that is inherently evolutionary in pace with a revolutionary force, because you're going to run into, you know, kind of innovation ceilings, commercial feasibility, all of these things that, you know, take decades, if not centuries to play out. Yeah. And we're going to hold our breath until they, you know, until they happen, you know, at the end of the day, the French look like genius for building all those, nukes and, having having baseload power, even though they almost they almost reverse that.

00;35;29;25 - 00;35;54;24
Unknown
But supposedly they're back. Okay with that. They almost had a Germany. They almost said to Germany, they at least were talking about a Germany, but anyway, I wish there was something we could do other than just like, beat our head against the wall to, to just say, look on an inflation adjusted basis. I mean, gasoline is still really cheap.

00;35;54;27 - 00;36;20;02
Unknown
I mean, you're paying way more for your Starbucks. I saw somebody characterized that as and maybe it was John Arnold, but I don't want to attribute to him if if he didn't say it. But you know that that argument is being politically tone deaf, which I agree that it is, because people are kind of anchored as to where they are today.

00;36;20;04 - 00;36;41;24
Unknown
Yeah, well, I was paying think at the trough here recently, over the last few months, I think at H-e-b in a rental car, I paid $2.14 a gallon. I think I paid one $0.99. So you're all of a sudden it's it's the, it's the rate of change and the magnitude of the change that we've witnessed over a very short period of time.

00;36;41;26 - 00;37;17;21
Unknown
And people emotionally react to that. I'm not thinking, well, you know, if I had the 2006 equivalent of gasoline prices right in 2026, I'd be paying, I think, north of four, if not meaningfully north of four. I'd have to go back and look at my garage query on that. Let's talk about something uplifting to close it out. This this has nothing to do with energy, but it's it's such a good thing.

00;37;17;22 - 00;37;44;09
Unknown
Have you been paying attention to this? Yeah, I saw I saw Rick Perry and, the guy from Kentucky go. Yeah, that's their second Rogen appearance. They were on. Yeah, I've seen both of them. Yeah. They're fantastic. Brian Hubbard is. Yeah, amazing. And, you know, I was in, the World Oldman's Poker tournament two years ago and actually chatted with Rick Perry's son about it.

00;37;44;13 - 00;38;09;20
Unknown
Yeah. You know, and, and, you know, watching Rick Perry on Rogan, watching him on interviews, talking to his son, I mean, lot of mad respect for him because he was right in that he's saying, you know, a right wing conservative Republican coming out for drugs. You know, he had to put his reputation on the line to do it.

00;38;09;20 - 00;38;35;28
Unknown
But I think it's every every bit of data I've seen, it's totally the right thing to do. Yeah. And the original, podcast they did, it's been approaching, I don't know, 4 or 5 years now, I don't know. It's within the last two years. So they been on with the, you know, pretty, pretty high frequency at least looking at those two.

00;38;36;00 - 00;39;23;26
Unknown
And and so what we're talking about here is the, the momentum that has been gained on ibogaine in particular, which is a psychedelic that is got a lot of, testimonial evidence from people, some fairly high profile people like Marcus Luttrell who have undergone ibogaine treatment outside of the US because it's a schedule one narcotic under the the rescheduling back in the early 70s by the Nixon administration, which took all psychedelics and put them in the the toughest, part of the schedule, which is schedule one.

00;39;23;29 - 00;40;02;27
Unknown
And Rogan always brings us up. He said, you know, this was not grounded in kind of good medical science. It was it was, a thing that politically was used in opposition to the antiwar movement and to the civil rights movement, to the hippies. Yeah, yeah, let's stick it to the hippies. So the is it the a plant grows principally in Gabon, and so is that a derivative, the Boga plant that is administered in a very, controlled medical setting.

00;40;02;27 - 00;40;40;08
Unknown
You know, this is not a recreational drug, but what it targets is all of these nefarious addictions and trauma related, brain and neurological issues. Right. And the early results point to after one treatment, 80% success after one. And it's over 90% after two treatments. Yeah. And this is not something, as I understand it, that you're going to want to, to have access to recreationally anyway, I've heard is an outside trip.

00;40;40;09 - 00;41;13;29
Unknown
Yeah. You you take it, you throw up, you have to have one, if not two people supervising you. And it is it is a supposedly a really rough 24 to 36 hours. Perry actually. Went through the treatment. He had a pretreatment scan. And, you know, he's in his early 70s and he had some degree of atrophy. According to the scans.

00;41;14;01 - 00;41;56;12
Unknown
And he went through the ibogaine treatment, down in Mexico. And I forget what the, the, the time period was the post, you know, they they do they do a scan post the treatment to see what's changed. And I think by the sixth week or the first month that he was completely gone. Yeah. And he, you know, he said, look, I'm not I'm not a guy who had anything but a wonderful childhood, grew up on a dryland cotton farm in Abilene, had great parents, straight as an arrow, you know, very successful.

00;41;56;12 - 00;42;26;15
Unknown
No, no real trauma. Like we're talking about. I think Marcus Laterals is probably the best known case of PTSD. And where this all started was Latrell at kind of a low point when, Perry was governor? I think Perry had just made some offhand comment to to Marcus when they first met. Hey, you know, come see me when I get out if I can help you out.

00;42;26;17 - 00;42;55;11
Unknown
Well, he shows up at the governor governor's mansions doorstep, and he lives there for the next two and a half years. Yeah, because they're, you know, they're on fun ways. And that was really the spark and the catalyst as I see it, for Perry. But if you think about where he came from politically and reputationally, you know, he he was a military pilot and they were definitely afraid of anything that would disqualify them.

00;42;55;11 - 00;43;26;02
Unknown
And, you know, they grew up in an era where anything drug related, whether it was marijuana or psychedelics, you know, growing up in the 60s, that was, you know, you came up and, probably the most conservative circumstances that a young young man can develop in, and he's carried that through. I mean, you know, Bill Clinton, it didn't disqualify him from being president, but it was a big brouhaha that he had smoked marijuana.

00;43;26;02 - 00;43;53;02
Unknown
Yeah. You know, I mean, that was if, I mean, I remember being in law school and having a discussion if you want to be a federal judge, you do not smoke marijuana. You know, I mean, that was a real thing. You know, we don't think about we we we think about the high profile and certainly the tragic cases of PTSD as it relates to returning combat veterans.

00;43;53;02 - 00;44;31;17
Unknown
But Rogan always talks about think about the life, kind of a beat cop in the shit that they see every day. And processing that, you know, how do you, especially in some, you know, some higher crime jurisdictions where you're saying the worst of the worst on a, on a, on a virtual daily basis, the stories I hear from my kids out at DC, are things that no human should have to have witnessed, much less some kid.

00;44;31;20 - 00;44;55;21
Unknown
You know, we have stories of of, boyfriend setting mom on fire. Yeah, things like that. There's a lot of really bad stuff in the world. And so the, you know, the cases that have been featured, more of them talked about in the first podcast that, Brian Herbert and Rick Perry did with Rogan some months ago.

00;44;55;24 - 00;45;40;16
Unknown
And, you know, if true, which there's not any real reason to believe that or not. Stanford based study, right? Yeah. And, you know, just some of the individual cases from the worst opioid addiction and even neurological things that have been debilitating there, I think there was a European case, they don't completely understand the process of I began on kind of rewiring the brain in the neurological function, but the almost immediate cessation of addictive behavior, and it's across the spectrum of addiction, addictions.

00;45;40;16 - 00;46;04;03
Unknown
I think most important and most notable are things like opioid and methamphetamine. It kind of crisis levels in this country. But there's been that, you know, there's been a lot of resistance. Hubbard talks about, you know, his early work on ibogaine in Kentucky. And, you know, he at the end of this latest one, I'm sure you heard it.

00;46;04;03 - 00;46;32;23
Unknown
He's he's no friend of the governor of Turkey, Andy Beshear, who was rumored to be one of the favorites when all the shenanigans were going on, when, Biden dropped out. Yeah. That, John Morgan was on, you know, he left the party. He's been a pretty big voice. He's a trial lawyer. Morgan. Morgan, that was he.

00;46;32;23 - 00;47;07;20
Unknown
And Shapiro were the kind of the first names out of his mouth as as kind of a wish list of who should be in a primary situation against Kamala. So anyway, this thing got its first shot of momentum with a $50 million authorization by the Texas Legislature, to sanction the the clinical trials and the study on on ibogaine.

00;47;07;22 - 00;47;36;24
Unknown
And now it started to snowball. Yeah, right. Other states are are getting legislation passed or, you know, I don't I don't know how the state legislature, the lawmaking process works and a lot of other states, but it seems to have had a snowball effect. But the you know, the big thing was the immediate turnaround. After this podcast, Rogan reached out to Trump and basically said, you need to look at this.

00;47;36;27 - 00;48;16;00
Unknown
He did, and they put together that, press event, that signing ceremony in the in the white House just last Saturday. So, you know, hopefully the momentum and the research resources, both expertise and financial resources really kick this thing into high gear because we have, as you know, particularly as it relates to opioids in the US, we've we've got, you know, just a tsunami of tragedy that has been sweeping over the US for a number of years.

00;48;16;02 - 00;48;45;01
Unknown
Yeah. And I don't know, I, I know a lot of people on and I you know, I personally know, you know of some tragic outcomes from that type of addiction. So it touches almost everybody. Yeah. No, I mean, 100,000 people a year. I mean, and the suicide rate among, veterans is still in the, I think in the 22 per day type of, yeah, territory.

00;48;45;01 - 00;49;16;18
Unknown
And so if there is an ability to really fast track and study and, you know, it's not for everybody, it's not for every situation. But when you see early results having kind of an 80 to 90% effectiveness, that's that's something we ought to be we ought to be unified on. And trying to figure this out and getting rid of the stigma, these types of, of therapies and applications.

00;49;16;21 - 00;49;38;04
Unknown
I've got a good friend that claims mushrooms going to wind up solving a lot of stuff. And not not in a flippant way. He's a smart, thoughtful, thoughtful guy. So kudos to, to Governor Perry on this. The, the knock on him was always, you know, a little bit of a light weight, and all that.

00;49;38;04 - 00;50;07;21
Unknown
And, you know, I'm, I'm the libertarian here, and I hate government and all, but, you know, good. Good for him. Government. And I have to say, Brian Hubbard is one of the most inspiring people that I've ever listened to. Yeah. No, I mean, it's an incredible story. And he is, smart, thoughtful, really evangelical. Yes. But but extremely well prepared, articulate.

00;50;07;21 - 00;50;30;23
Unknown
Even though they kind of joke about his, his hillbilly accent. Oh, yeah. They, I worked, I worked at Stevens, and a lot of those guys had funny accents, but they were smart as all get out. And, All right, everybody, if you enjoyed the show, please share it with a friend. Mark, good to see you back in, back in studio.

00;50;30;23 - 00;50;42;24
Unknown
Thank you for choosing me and not Kirk. That's a whole nother, story. We'll get into it. At some point.